Comments on Quiet the Thunder: Marriage Is Not Overrated, But Some Opinions Are

Thanks again. I can see that you have a good heart...

2008-10-09T14:18:00.000-04:00

Thanks again. I can see that you have a good heart, even though the original post sounds too much like Violent Acres (a notorious female blogger who really sounds mean and opinionated). In fact, you seem like a very sweet gal underneath that tough-ish attitude.

Anyway, may I ask you what do you reckon of feminism? Greatest thing since whatever, a huge detriment or somewhere in between? For background, here's an interesting blog entry that touches on feminism from an intriguing angle, but mostly explains the huge difference between an unhappy relationship and a happy one.

@E.H. - I think you are on the right track. Your ...

2008-10-09T09:37:00.000-04:00

@E.H. - I think you are on the right track. Your observations about love can certainly be true. I always say, "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably...a duck."

If a love relationship looks nothing like love - well then, it's not, and get out!

But what to do? Just keep trying to find the relationship that works for you, I certainly have no answers but what worked for me and makes me happy. It could be different for others, for sure.

Thanks again for responding. It looks like your ma...

2008-10-09T09:01:00.000-04:00

Thanks again for responding. It looks like your marriage with Mike is a happy one and you two suit each other quite fine, if not perfectly. That's good. I'd certainly be interested in reading your upcoming post about the topic too. :)

Meanwhile, ponder this. It is my contention that human beings want to be happy. If they're not happy, then they feel discontent and such discontentment can manifest itself in various perversions: for example, drinking, watching porn on the internet, considering (or actually visiting) hookers, or worse still, one may become rather violent in one's behavior. If that won't show in real life (assuming one is a bit on the cowardly side) then this means that one will, for example, post a bunch of negative libel on the internet forums and comments sections. And if one is married, one feels temptation to cheat on one's spouse and have extramarital affairs. Worse still, abuse may rear its ugly head! In other words, pretty fucked up! Religion and morality have tried to keep us in line, but failed to do so. You've also posted a few rules as per what makes marriage work. Again, this does not guarantee happiness. Because one day you'll become tired of trying to please the other person all the time. And oh the trouble that will begin then.

Also, when someone condemns romantic notions about love for being "unrealistic", and that love can end, then I'm fairly certain that people refer to the (unstated) fact that most people are dissatisfied with their authentic selves and they want to pretend to be someone else instead. If you're madly in love with someone and then you discover that you hate that person instead, then it's likely that the guy just pretended to be someone he's not and repressed his real self to please you. Unfortunately this charade can't be kept up forever and thus two people who aren't right for each other may feel that the passion has died or love is vanishing. Could it be that in incompatible relationships there is no love at all? Could it be that what is usually refered to as "love" might be a potent mix of hypocrisy and greed instead? It is certainly a hypocrisy to swear you love your partner till death do you part while the reality might be that you just want some guy with high income and high social status (greed part), instead of considering compatibility. Why is it so hard to be yourself and find someone who loves you for what you are and who you find to be near and dear to your heart as well? Take your fucking masks off people!!! And then tell me if you still believe that romance is unrealistic.

But fine, let's assume that romance is unrealistic. And that marriage is no guarantee for happiness at all, no matter how perfectly you suit your partner. Still, human beings want to be happy. What to do?

@E.H. - No way! I LOVE that you found me by Googl...

2008-10-08T21:23:00.000-04:00

@E.H. - No way! I LOVE that you found me by Googling "is marriage overrated." That is why blogging is so awesome, it makes connections that never would have otherwise happened!

I guess my personal feelings about marriage are that it is totally up to each person what they are looking for. I happen to be a pragmatist. I don't believe in the perfect anything, and that really works for me, but some people have different ideals.

I will say this, while I think marriage has its peaks and valleys, I NEVER hate my husband's guts. EVER. I love him, no matter what, and I enjoy the same from him.

Does that mean we don't have squabbles, or even big arguments? No. But to be honest, most of the time they are so stupid, like whether or not he remembered to put away some laundry. We are both human, and sometimes our emotions get the best of us, but my relationship is not subject to wild changes in emotion or devotion when it matters.

I'm glad you bring this up though - and I think I will write a new post about it (so stay tuned!) because now that I think about it, every other relationship I had before Mike WAS prone to wild ups and downs, days of devotion, and days where I totally lost feeling. That was never the case with my husband, and gee, I suppose that's why we got married! : )

Thanks for your questions, I think they are incredibly important for people to think about...and like I said, stay tuned for a post about this topic!

Commencing backwards:

How did you find m...

2008-10-08T16:56:00.000-04:00
Commencing backwards:

How did you find my blog?

A blunt confession: by googling "is marriage overrated". Don't kill me! :)

I've always wondered whether or not happy monogamous relationship is possible. When someone mentions marriage, the following alarms are set off in my mind: shoddy compromises, petty arguements, ego clashes, power struggles, all kinds of intrigues as well as pathetic attempts to liven up your love-life. I'm wondering if that is indeed the reality or can we do better. They say marriage is a series of peaks and valleys, but any relationship where at one day you swear eternal love to your partner and then another day you hate her guts is suspect as prone to misery. Marriage at its best should be as stable as possible.

A recently married couple that I befriended not too long ago has said that in order for a relationship to work, compatibility is absolutely necessary. If you're compatible with your partner, then everything becomes easy and you may never feel you want to get out of your relationship. I'm struggling with acceptance of either this idea or the "peaks and valleys" school of thought. The latter is touted as more realistic, but the former theory would explain why infidelity occurs, why do couples have violent conflicts, why men resort to prostitutes, porn or other perversions, why men drink, why women are shopaholics or compulsive consumerists and what is the solution: the problem is incompatibility and dissatisfaction with the wrong partner and the solution would be finding a compatible partner. Regardless if the theory of perfect match is true or not, I still believe that most people focus on the symptoms, not causes when it comes to marital problems.

Why don't you check out this interesting essay by the ones who advocate this theory of perfect match about love and tell me whether the author (my question is in italics) is out to lunch or does he have some kind of a point? Otherwise this is an Estonian blog (I'm from Estonia) but this is a rare post in English.

@E.H. - of course any individual can consider marr...

2008-10-08T16:33:00.000-04:00
@E.H. - of course any individual can consider marriage overrated by their personal criteria, but I think anyone looking to prove that marriage is objectively overrated would have a tall philosophical hill to climb.

In my post, I even mentioned that I don't consider someone's choice to be single a lesser choice. I argue that each choice is actually neutral, and individuals get to decide for themselves how they feel about it, but don't get to pronounce upon others.

Perhaps you mean to point out my over-reaction to negative comments about marriage, and in that case, fair enough! ; )

Thanks for your comments, I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

How did you find my blog?

Thanks for responding Milena.

I would argue...

2008-10-08T15:49:00.000-04:00
Thanks for responding Milena.

I would argue that technically, marriage can be overrated. At least when being married is considered a better relationship status than being single and if more people choose to be married than remain alone and waiting before the time may be right for marriage. However, mostly when someone says "overrated" it is assumed that "overrated"="crap". I guess you were pissed off because you were constantly told how you made a "crappy choice" and "whoops, there went your freedom".

I once read someone state that "50% of all marriages fail. 30% are the unhappy ones where one partner wants to divorce, but is prevented fron doing so. 15% are "happy": that is, one side has submitted himself so much to the domineering partner he ceases to be autonomous. And only 5% are happy, without quote marks". Exaggeration or not, but sometimes it seems to me that it indeed is akin to winning a lottery to become one of those happy ones sans quotation marks. And lest we forget that only 5% of individuals are rich as well. Perhaps finding a really happy marriage is akin to getting rich: it is possible, but it's not easy and most people fail.

@e.h. - You are right in that someone's comments d...

2008-10-08T14:50:00.000-04:00
@e.h. - You are right in that someone's comments did piss me off, but I don't think you are being thoughtless or judgmental. If someone says marriage is not for them, I don't judge them at all, and I think having doubts about marriage is totally normal! My point is that they shouldn't judge me for being happy.

I think we can have doubts and confusion without condemning the state of marriage wholesale. I have seen people react strongly against their personal doubts, but they will end up calling marriage "pointless" or "unecessary" just because they personally feel that way.

It bothers me because a lot of people do find joy in their marriages. I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

Make sense?

As for your comments, I agree, we need to find people we are compatible with, and be well aware of what we are getting into...

Still one more mistake. This is a correction (in i...

2008-10-08T14:38:00.000-04:00
Still one more mistake. This is a correction (in italics):

"I think that with the person who is as much compatible with you as possible it should be, if not completely easy, then certainly way easier than trying to make it work with a person too different from you."

Sounds like you're fairly pissed off with anyone d...

2008-10-08T14:33:00.000-04:00
Sounds like you're fairly pissed off with anyone deriding marriage. In another post you said you think that it was a mistake that your own parents divorced. But why: if they weren't happy with each other, this probably meant that they just weren't right for each other. Do you honestly think that they could have saved the marriage somehow?

I believe that most marriages or relationships unravel because most people are together with an incompatible person to begin with. This may be true that marriage may require work and sacrifice of your freedom, but I think that with the person who is as much compatible with you it should be, if not completely easy, then certainly way easier than trying to make it work with a person too different from you. Everyone says "marriage takes work" or "it is a series of peaks and valleys" to the point that marriage really seems like a tough drudgery that nobody would put up with. Few stress similarity/compatibility. And I think that's what is underrated within the entire realm of marriage/relationships.

I'm definitely considering whether or not marriage is worth it at all. There's a lot of unhappiness within many relationships and you just can't pay the high price that the marriage entails so hastily just because it's a norm in our society. Hopefully you won't get pissed off over this comment and deride me as a "thoughtless" or "judgmental" "surly twentysomething whiner" for that. If that's how you feel about anyone skeptical about marriage, then there's a detriment that you might turn some people off from marriage. Honey brings better results than vinegar, remember?

(deleted the previous comment because I wanted to be precise about one thing I happened to overlook)

2008-10-08T14:28:00.000-04:00
This comment has been removed by the author.

@Alaia Williams - you know what led me to my husba...

2008-08-25T16:30:00.000-04:00
@Alaia Williams - you know what led me to my husband? Being the best single person I could be. It sounds cheesy and antithetical. I was so fed up with dating, I decided to delve into my passion in life, music. I swore off dating anyone else until I could get a musical venture off the ground. I met Mike (my husband) when he and I auditioned each other to start a duet (he plays guitar, I sing). We were musicians first, friends second, and dating came a year later!

It took me being completely true to my (single) self to find someone who'd be true to me. (cue sappy violin music...)

I agree with Holly. You hit the nail on the head. ...

2008-08-25T16:22:00.000-04:00
I agree with Holly. You hit the nail on the head. Marriage isn't overrated. It just might not be for everyone. They a neutral. One option isn't "better" than the other - they are just different.

I've gone back and forth about whether or not I want to get married. 95% of the time, I do want to get married. Whether I think it'll happen or not is another story. But that's another story...

@please sir - I'm glad I can bring a new perspecti...

2008-08-25T15:47:00.000-04:00
@please sir - I'm glad I can bring a new perspective, I'm just sorry it's such a surly one! Anyhow, marriage is a very personal thing, and I truly hope everyone can find love like I have. It is hard work, but very rewarding work.

@Holly Hoffman - I often blog about how when I was single, I thought I was destined to be single. I was happy to come and go as I pleased and not be imposed upon with the details of someone else's life. When you are married, you (as a single entity) disappear! Sort of. What I mean is that you will not make another move in life without at least subsconsciously considering its impact on your spouse. You alter your life to fit theirs and vice versa. It's like any other discipline you decide to adopt for life, whether it's a creative or spiritual endeavor, marriage is one of those things where doubt and difficulty is omnipresent, but you overcome those things through practice, patience, love, and faith.

That said, being single is also a journey that can take equal amounts of practice, patience, and faith. The single life, when chosen by anyone can come with its own challenges and rewards. I'm glad we're in agreement, both states are inherently neutral: you get what you give.

Thanks for commenting...

Milena,

I think you hit the nail on the hea...

2008-08-25T14:30:00.000-04:00
Milena,

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that single or married is a neutral state. It's what you bring to it that makes it positive or negative. I love being single... for now. It's what makes me happy right now. If it made me miserable, I guess that would be something else, but it doesn't.

Someday I hope to also be happy in marriage. If I am one way or the other, happy or miserable, well that's on me. I say do whatever is right for you, and don't paint with a broad brush.

I have to be at peace with who I am before I can join someone else, and that's why I'm single right now. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who don't bother to find themselves and their happiness before they marry, and I think that's what so many of us 20-somethings get ruffled about. But that's not health and it's not perspective.

Bad marriages and stupid-ass people exist everywhere, in marriage and in singlehood. The idea is to find the people, married or not, you look up to and watch how they do it.

Thanks for bringing a new perspective to this topi...

2008-08-25T14:19:00.000-04:00
Thanks for bringing a new perspective to this topic. I'm quite confused on the topic of marriage myself, but I don't proclaim that I am better for not currently being married. I think there is a constant battle between marriage vs. single people because each has positives that the other might want or miss. Your statement - Marriage is about selflessness and self-control - is so true. I believe if you decide to get married you should be ready to give and share, but also be excited about this transition.

Also, just put up a post discussing where you live and what you like about it - would love your input.

@Z - I guess we're both bitter! ; P

Well, I...

2008-08-25T11:18:00.000-04:00
@Z - I guess we're both bitter! ; P

Well, I'm sorry if I sounded personally accusatory. (And I'm clear you were making a different point, and talking about your personal pressures to make a choice you aren't ready for).

I just find that since I have gotten married, I'm so much more sensitive to when I read other posts or hear outcries that marriage is overrated or unnecessary on an objective basis, instead of just saying, "I prefer to be single" and leaving it at that. I find many single people are comfortable knocking marriage.

I just thought I would clarify, I don't think marr...

2008-08-25T10:44:00.000-04:00
I just thought I would clarify, I don't think marriage is overrated at all! I may have sounded more irritated than I meant to... since everyone has been asking me if I am getting married soon. The point I was trying to make (apparently poorly) was that I think people take marriage too lightly, and get married for the wrong reasons. I also don't think marriage should be a source of entertainment, or your sole source of happiness. I simply meant to say; I want to wait until we are both ready, and not be pressured into it. I think you and I agree more than you think. I think I was also extra bitter in tone because I had just finished reading this post about Edwards and his transgressions...

~Z

Comments on Quiet the Thunder: Marriage Is Not Overrated, But Some Opinions Are

Thanks again. I can see that you have a good heart...

@E.H. - I think you are on the right track. Your ...

Thanks again for responding. It looks like your ma...

@E.H. - No way! I LOVE that you found me by Googl...

Commencing backwards:How did you find m...

@E.H. - of course any individual can consider marr...

Thanks for responding Milena.I would argue...

@e.h. - You are right in that someone's comments d...

Still one more mistake. This is a correction (in i...

Sounds like you're fairly pissed off with anyone d...

@Alaia Williams - you know what led me to my husba...

I agree with Holly. You hit the nail on the head. ...

@please sir - I'm glad I can bring a new perspecti...

Milena,I think you hit the nail on the hea...

Thanks for bringing a new perspective to this topi...

@Z - I guess we're both bitter! ; PWell, I...

I just thought I would clarify, I don't think marr...

Commencing backwards:

How did you find m...

Thanks for responding Milena.

I would argue...

Milena,

I think you hit the nail on the hea...

@Z - I guess we're both bitter! ; P

Well, I...